Report faults Air Force Academy on religion

[Duemellon]

Originally Posted by Pretend Girl

I can't believe you want to sit here and argue semantics about what a "question" is. If you say "continue to defend" something, then that person must have been defending it in the first place to even be able to continue it.

You say it's an argument about semantics when, yes, it is, semantics you bypassed so you could claim that I was accusing you of something just to make yourself out to be a victim. There's a long history of that in these boards by you, where you immediately act as if someone has wronged you, get all in a tivvy & pretend (heh, "Pretend" is in your name!) that they're abusing you somehow.

I was WONDERING,...

Strange how your post, when read, came across as "just wondering" using the semantics inside, but you warped mine into an accusation by consciously tossing aside the "if" so it could fit your plan of martyrdom.

It's a tired card, often played by you... still being played by you, despite the fact you said you were done in this conversation you can't help but try to portray yourself as some victim here to get the attention & pity you demand. Stop doing it, it's quite childish.

But really, it's cute that you tried to characterize me with all of your glowing qualities. But it's like the worst pick-up line ever, sweetheart.

Strange, that's like pot calling the White-Out© black. Looks to me like you've been at this a very, very, long time & even deluded yourself into thinking that.

Every time you overreact to a statement of mine & take it as some personal attack on yourself by bypassing crucial words that the post started off with so it fits your insidious self-serving needs then you want to blame it on me for you intentional denial of "semantics"?

Don't like me? That shows, but stop making such an effort for attention through forced victimhood and continued defence of your intentional warping of my post to remove "if". It's pitiful.

Congratulations on derailing another thread so we can give you the attention you crave while claiming victim. I wish you'd stop doing that, but that's how you get your kicks, I guess. *shrugs*

[markalot]

shut up.

thankyou

[Pretend Girl]

Originally Posted by Duemellon

If you find it to be "acceptable levels of intolerance" then continue to defend them.

Now allow me to construct a sentence identical in structure.

If you find it fulfilling to flaunt your obvious inability to to construct a sentence that accurately reflects what you mean, then continue to claim that an "IF" makes a sentence a question.

You see Roy, in this sentence, even though it started with an if, it contained a continue, and I'm not questioning your constant refusal to admit that you outright accused me of defending the actions of bigots, because it's obvious. Read your sentence again, read mine again. Same structure, and an assertion was made in each, despite your leaky claim.

You are a horrible person for even trying to turn this on me. When I first joined the boards, I never understood why everyone was always jumping on you, and I defended you all the time. For that, I am ashamed and deeply sorry to anyone I argued with in your defense. You have a very aggravating ability to say mean, awful things to people and pass it off as discourse, and it works because if anyone tries to tell you otherwise, you backpedal, you make up lies, or you try to turn it around on them to make them look like the villain. It's hard to defend yourself when someone calls you a bigot. I'm so sad that a community like this has to be infected with someone so unwilling to recognize that not everyone in the world is out to get them, not everyone in the world is a terrible human being, not everyone in the world is a bigot and a racist and a defender of evil. I am not the most agreeable person on the board and I've said some very terrible things to people who did not deserve them, and I have apologized to those I have severely wronged as well as learned to let things go every once in a while. But it's hard for me to just ignore you because you don't just do this to me, you do it to everyone, and try to tell me that's a lie but I saw it the first week I was on these boards and it hasn't let up since.

You can tell me I play the victim, you can tell me I'm only on these boards to get attention, you can make up whatever goddamn lies you want, but don't EVER accuse me of defending bigotry and hatred. It really shows your true colors man, it really does, that these are the words that you stoop to use when you've painted yourself in a corner. I know I'm not the Miss Congeniality of the WOXY boards, but I would never be a proponent of such things.

And with that, fuck you. I'm not even a fraction of the evil you accuse me of being.

[purple_octopus]

Fallacy of many questions

Many questions, also known as complex question, loaded question, or plurium interrogationum (Latin, "of many questions"), is a logical fallacy. It is committed when someone asks a question that presupposes something that has not been proven or accepted upon by the people involved--i.e., a premise is included which is at least as dubious as the proposed conclusion. For example, the statement that one should not walk in the woods alone at night because fairies are likely to bewitch you, presupposes that fairies exist--a dubious proposition.

This fallacy is often used rhetorically so that the question limits direct replies to something that serves the questioner's agenda. The standard example of this is the question Have you stopped beating your wife? Whether the person asked answers yes or no, he will admit to having beaten his wife at some time in the past. Thus, that fact is presupposed by the question, and if it has not been agreed upon by the speakers before, the question is improper, and the fallacy of many questions has been committed. (See Mu (Japanese word) for an alternate answer that has moderately frequent use.)

Note that the fallacy is all in context: the fact that a question presupposes something does not in itself make the question fallacious. Only when some of these presuppositions are not necessarily agreed to by the person who is asked the question, does argument containing them become fallacious.

A similar fallacy is begging the question.

[beki]

Originally Posted by markalot

shut up.

thankyou

my god, markalot and i agree on something in ce/p!

[Duemellon]

Geezus Jill (because for some reason you think a "real name" holds powah!) Could attempt to let the conversation continue without making it about yourself? Everyone is begging this conversation to stop but you continue it on.

Really, every conversation you're in doesn't have to turn into a discussion about you or about how much you're persecuted. It's pathetic, really.

It was an "if", a question, for clarification. Instead, in your self-fulfilling vision of victimhood, you turned it into an attack & made this thread about you, your "trials & tribulations". Please, for once, spare us all.

[beki]

Originally Posted by JSpaceman

You two need to get a room. Better yet, pick a Saturday morning, preferably foggy and drizzling rain, and talk it out over a hot cup of coffee and a tasty danish at a local diner. That'd be pretty cool. I'd take pictures, given your permission.

yeah and then you could put them on christmas cards and send them out to everyone and they'd look like this :

[Duemellon]

Originally Posted by beki

yeah and then you could put them on christmas cards and send them out to everyone and they'd look like this

Why aren't you in the Iron Artist Thread?

Hey, look, I have no grudge against her. I just wish she wouldn't respond so dramatically to posts as if she's a victim. Maybe she intends to turn them into a big discussion about her as a person (instead of her opinion on the matter) but after I've attempted to steer it back OT a few times she still won't relenquish the thread.

Behavior like hers makes an uncomfortable situation for people to post, fearing that even when they ask a question it's going to be taken as an accusation. It's a bizarre approach to getting attention, but it seems to be working for her.

[despondent]

My $.02 worth of advice to anyone posting in CE/P and looking to avoid quagmires is to leave emotion out of the discussion (easier said than done I know). Each of us has an individually unique point of view of life and the associated values and belief system that goes along with that. Our individual lives were forged in the experiences that only we have. This is each our reality. My reality is my reality and your reality is your reality. Please try to keep this in the back of your mind as you read and post and don't take things so personally and perhaps then an environment that fosters a real meeting of the minds can flourish.

[markalot]

Zen really ticks me off sometimes.

[Handy Smurf]

Originally Posted by sparkie

i was on team jesus once and we got housed. end story

Thats just because Christ dont play defense

[Handy Smurf]

Originally Posted by Duemellon

only to you. It was a question. Clearly a question.

you're just oversensitive to what I say & want to play the victim card. Pretend Girl "the Martyrdom". Hmm... sounds like a movie. Really, PG, don't fault me for your assumption that everything I say is divisive, accusatory, or whatever. If you actually read it, you'd see it was a question.

funny how for every 25-30 people on here who feel like this accurately describes you, there is only one person (you) who would vehemently disagree with that

[Handy Smurf]

June 24th, 2005 6:36 am:

Originally Posted by Duemellon

I've tried to get this back on topic between us but you'd rather spend your posts complaining about how someone is doing you wrong and we all should pay attention to it.
Then you continue to say "I'm not talking anymore" at least 2x but still want to get the last word in.

If you're seeking attention, you're getting it, at the expense of another conversation. You won't let it go because it's not what you wanted, you wanted us to end up talking about you. In an attempt to make yourself look better you're placing the blame on someone else too, so you don't have to examine why you chose to react to a response to your post.

I wish you wouldn't derail these conversations like this & try to blame other people.

June 24th, 2005 12:14am:

Originally Posted by Duemellon

You believed it was an accusation, I clarified that it was as it appeared to be, as it was packaged: A question. You won't let that stop you from being a martyr today and continue with the discussion. For the betterment of the boards, I'm done with ya today.
When you stop playing the "whoa is me" card, perhaps we can have a discussion about the topic again.

Good call on that one Duey. Of course 5 hours and 22 minutes is almost a day...

edited to add-
June 24th, 2005 10:11 am:

It's a tired card, often played by you... still being played by you, despite the fact you said you were done in this conversation you can't help but try to portray yourself as some victim here to get the attention & pity you demand. Stop doing it, it's quite childish.

Sorry, couldnt help myself

[beki]

Originally Posted by Duemellon

Why aren't you in the Iron Artist Thread?

because all i have to use here is microsoft paint and a touchpad. no camera, no scanner, no mouse, no photoshop, etc.. and i don't really want to put a bunch of less than decent stuff that i've done with less than decent tools all over the internet. only in ce/p.

[Buzzstein]

know when to say when.

That's all I have to say about that.

[Duemellon]

I'm going to go out on a limb here & assume that HSmu is taking this opportunity to make some remarks about me, probably coming in under the guise of being a "victim" as well.

Of course, this conversation, having nothing to do with him, couldn't go on. He must interject with some attention-grabbing effort to wrestle with Jill over who's the worst victim.

Man, how obviously pathetic can you get? Wasn't even about you, but here you come along claiming being a victim. That's the ultimately blatent attempt at forced martyrdom.

WTG. We should start a thread about you, with you in the title, maybe then your masochistic egocentric desires could be satisfied.

[Handy Smurf]

Originally Posted by Duemellon

I'm going to go out on a limb here & assume that HSmu is taking this opportunity to make some remarks about me, probably coming in under the guise of being a "victim" as well.

Of course, this conversation, having nothing to do with him, couldn't go on. He must interject with some attention-grabbing effort to wrestle with Jill over who's the worst victim.

Man, how obviously pathetic can you get? Wasn't even about you, but here you come along claiming being a victim. That's the ultimately blatent attempt at forced martyrdom.

WTG. We should start a thread about you, with you in the title, maybe then your masochistic egocentric desires could be satisfied.

Wow, bold prediction for someone who has me on "Ignore." Remind me to give you a tutorial on how that works someday, Duey.
And for the record, either your reading comprehension skills are exceptionally poor today, whoever alerted you to the fact I posted here mislead you, or you are doing a very poor job of guessing on your own-Nostradamus you are not.
If making a statement about the percentage of people here you routinely piss off, offend, make ridiculous accusations about, and namecall is claiming victimhoom, the so be it.
If quoting your own posts to point out your blatant hypocricy--when you're calling a boarder who I like a hypocrite--is claiming victimhood, then I'm guilty.
(BTW, this particular boarder is one who defended me when you made personal attacks about my family, a tactic I have yet to see any other boarder utilize, no matter how much of a troll you or anyone else may think they are)

I know you miss me Duey, but remember, ignoring works better when you don't bring me up every 20 minutes

[despondent]

Air Force Taps Religious Tolerance Adviser


Mon Jun 27, 2:10 PM ET

A rabbi who retired as one of the military's top chaplains was appointed by the Air Force on Monday to help carry out recommendations of a task force that investigated complaints of religious intolerance at the Air Force Academy.

Arnold E. Resnicoff was named special assistant to acting Air Force Secretary Michael Dominguez and chief of staff for values and vision.

The military task force reported Wednesday there was no overt religious discrimination at the academy but insensitivity by cadets and staff members.

The task force was created to look into complaints that evangelical Christians at the academy have harassed Jewish cadets and those of other faiths.

The panel made nine recommendations, including a suggestion that the Air Force create guidelines on what sorts of religious remarks are permissible.

Resnicoff is a Vietnam veteran who served in the Mekong Delta region and retired as command chaplain for U.S. European Command.

He is a former National Director of Interreligious Affairs for the American Jewish Committee and one of a small group of Vietnam veterans who helped create the Vietnam Veterans Memorial.

[beki]

Originally Posted by despondent

The panel made nine recommendations, including a suggestion that the Air Force create guidelines on what sorts of religious remarks are permissible.

wow, an anti-harassment policy instated at a school? unheard of!

really, though, this is definitely a step in the right direction and hopefully it's not just a gesture.